Where to go from here?

[LuminousAphid]

Hey guys, I have had this 20 gallon tank for about 2 months now (it seems like so much longer), and I think it's finally getting into balance thanks to all the plants I have gathered over those 2 months.

Sept. 9

Edit: Sept. 14

Edit: Sept. 16

Edit: Sept. 21

Edit: Sept. 29

Edit: Re-done tank, Oct. 31:

It's pretty low-tech except the light, which is a 24" Finnex Ray 2 (7000k). I add Seachem Flourish about once a week in very small amounts (10-20 drops) so that algae doesn't take over again, but I think I might be able to start bumping that up soon with the extra plants I've brought in recently.

Now, I am wondering where to go from here. My goal is to make the arrangement have more vertical variation, but I don't know a good way to do this except getting taller plants, many of which I don't like the look of. I don't want the "Dutch style" look with big plants in back, medium in middle and short in front. Really, I would like it to be pretty asymmetrical & natural looking, maybe one back corner to be raised up a lot to form a little terrace, but I don't know a good way of doing this. Any ideas on that issue?

I also want to cut down on the number of species I have. I really like the anubia, the ludwigia, the water sprite, and the guppy grass. The Amazon Swords look nice, but don't grow too well in my setup - the older leaves get thin quickly. I do have some root tabs to try on them. The hygro I could live without, and I don't know if I like the look of the Elodea or not. I would ideally like to have only 4-5 species to give it some continuity.

I'm thinking the main thing would be to find a piece of wood which makes interesting use of the space, and then plan and plant around that. But I would like some ideas from you guys for aquascaping a 20 high, if you have come across things which work well (or don't work well)

 

[pbmax]

Amazon swords require either root tabs or a nutritive substrate. If you give them one of these they'll get HUGE and send runners out everywhere with very little other maintenance. They're one of my standbys because they're so indestructible.

 

[Lamental Jester]

Dirt that bad boy!!!  Your plants will take off.  I've got a few extra large swords I'll be bringing to the SWAP, fyi

 

[DMD123]

That is a beautiful tank! Keep up the good work. :spoton: 

 

[MorganEA]

some manzanita would look nice in there

 

[LuminousAphid]

some manzanita would look nice in there

pbmax: I have known they needed something for a while, I have just been hesitating on doing it because I keep moving things around and I'm worried about getting more algae, so I''m going to wait on the root tabs. I kind of like them small actually, so I may start with just a fraction of a root tab each, so that they don't start getting huge, just maybe more healthy... any other suggestions of getting them healthier but not much bigger? I suppose that if they're healthy, they get big, so maybe I'm asking the impossible

Jester: I have just now really begun learning all of this, so I'm waiting off on the dirt until I have more $$ to spend on it and more knowledge, so that I can do it right. I am not yet confident in my abilities to keep a dirted tank uder control... plus, I like to move things around, and sand is very forgiving for that

DMD123: thanks  I think it's a bit too cluttered, but some of the stuff I'm proud of- the bog log that I managed to attach all of my anubia to I think looks really cool. I appreciate the compliment

MorganEA: I do like how some of the larger pieces of manzanita look, but I also really like the bog log I have in there. I have another one in my 10 gallon with java moss attached to it, and I'm thinking about bringing that into this tank. I think my RCS live under it though, and I know my clown pleco lives there, so I might look for something else.

Does anyone have suggestions on good sources for wood? So far I got mine from Aquarium Co-Op or found it myself, but Cory doesn't have much more of the african bog log to go with the little piece in there. Or if anyone has any they aren't using...?

I might look up where all of the different species I have come from, what type of water they like, and then go based on that. Maybe african anubias biotope? although a lot of my fish are from south america...

 

[Gryphon]

Try Aquabid.com if you can't find it locally, occasionally you'll see some good pieces up for bid there, and you'll find some different things Cholla cactus wood.

 

[MorganEA]

Im pretty sure someone is bringing manzanita to the swap if you are going to be there

 

[Lamental Jester]

Im pretty sure someone is bringing manzanita to the swap if you are going to be there

Someone? Like THIS guy? lol... yes, I will have a good amount of manzanita wood there :spoton: 

 

[Anonymous]

The only thing I could suggest is to be patient. You DO have a lot of things going on in there, maybe wait another month or two, concentrate  on the plants that are not doing so well, get them healthy, grow them out a bit . More than  likely  you will find the sword is just going to get to big for this set up & not going to fit your ideal. If you wait a bit you will be able to start splitting the Ludwigia and replanting the stems for a fuller plant structure. This would look nice filling out a corner of the tank. Anubias will take a while to grow but will look awesome. African ferns also take a while to fill out. You can train these but in a good environment the branches can get 8-10 inches long. A beautiful plant but I believe will eventually be to big for a 20 gallon tall with other plants.

What I do is stand back and take a good long look (I as sure you already have, lol) . imagine the plants full and large and make adjustments on how YOU would like to see it.

 

[LuminousAphid]

fishNAbowl:

Yeah, I think patience is what I need at this point. I don't think I have given all of the plants a fair shot, but I can already see that I really like the ludwigia. I actually did do some pruning of those this morning, placed the tops back in the substrate and re-arranged to make a little ludwigia garden. It actually seems to root pretty fast in my tank, and seems really happy once it does. The new top growth since I bought the plants has been nice and compact (probably thanks to LED power) and pretty colorful, with peach-orange tips which look really nice.

I know anubias grow slow, but I just love the way barteri looks and grows, and how low-maintenance it is (my amanos keep the big leaves clean). I would like to pick up some barteri var. nana petite next time I stop into the shop, and see if I can add that to my anubias log without making it too cluttered.

Any suggestions on sloping a sand substrate and getting it to stay that way? Mine seems to slowly slump down to level after a couple weeks.

 

[Anonymous]

fishNAbowl:

Yeah, I think patience is what I need at this point. I don't think I have given all of the plants a fair shot, but I can already see that I really like the ludwigia. I actually did do some pruning of those this morning, placed the tops back in the substrate and re-arranged to make a little ludwigia garden. It actually seems to root pretty fast in my tank, and seems really happy once it does. The new top growth since I bought the plants has been nice and compact (probably thanks to LED power) and pretty colorful, with peach-orange tips which look really nice.

I know anubias grow slow, but I just love the way barteri looks and grows, and how low-maintenance it is (my amanos keep the big leaves clean). I would like to pick up some barteri var. nana petite next time I stop into the shop, and see if I can add that to my anubias log without making it too cluttered.

Any suggestions on sloping a sand substrate and getting it to stay that way? Mine seems to slowly slump down to level after a couple weeks.

Sometimes Ludwigia will also stem off the sides like branches. Once these are about 3-4 inches one can pick them off at the mothering stem and replant them as well. You probably wont see that unless the plant is half way to , or close to the water line.

Mixing the 2 Anubias plants together is an interesting idea. This may turn out neat. Also, all the Anubias species I have dealt with can be "trained" so to speak. What I mean is; you can cut these plants and make them split (in case you dont already know). As long as you leave at lest 3-4 leaves growing and that the "mother" plant has a good root start. Cutting the top of Anubias will stunt, then 2 tops will replace the 1. This will in turn make the plant start spitting out babies along the side in most cases I've seen. This strategy works well if you want the Anubias to take over a large area instead of just growing along a straight line. The Petite Anubias I have seems to do this naturally for me.

As for tappering sand/gravel. In my experience my sands and gravels usually work them selves back to level to a certain point. I found myself during gravel vac picking up the gravel/sand in the syphon, then slowing releasing it toward the back to retain the slopped look. Once the tank is completely planted this will be difficult if not impossible. Otherwise (unless someone else chimes in with suggestions) I will use borders to hold the substrate back. Like with half buried bog wood, or long slivers of petrafied wood, or slate rocks. Then this should hold the substrate back. Its sort like a "retaining wall". If I get a chance I will dig out photos and show you what I mean.

 

[LuminousAphid]

Cool, I think I know what you mean... I was thinking of doing that with that big slab of slate I found at the beach, actually. I will have to see what I can work out with that.

That's interesting about the anubias splitting- Do you mean the 1 rhizome will fork into 2 different ones and keep growing on the same plant? Or do you just mean that cuttings will grow separately on their own? I have cut pieces off and they seem to start growing after a couple of weeks, but making a fork-shaped 2 prong rhizome is definitely an interesting idea.

Also, what was the small carpeting plant you have in your bowl? It looks great

 

[Anonymous]

I believe the hair type grass is called Eleocharis Belem.

A while ago I was making allsorts of decor with slate. I used a side grinder with a cutting wheel to cut long pieces. I still have many many little pieces just laying around.

Cutting the rhizome of the Anubias will manipulate its growth. The outcome of that growth is unpredictable (disclaimer ) but many of mine split into 2, making a fork. A lot of time this prompted the plant to shoot more rhizomes out of the sides since cutting the plant stunted it. I have a mother plant that I cut starter rhizomes off and seed other tanks, and friends

 

[LuminousAphid]

Hmm, interesting, I haven't seen mine splitting yet, but they are pretty new to the tank (tank is pretty new lol) so maybe now that they are fully adjusted, I will try splitting the big one again. I think 1 of the pieces I cut too small, and its growth seems to have stalled, even though it has roots- what's the smallest piece of rhizome you have had success growing? Do the pieces of rhizome have to have their own roots, or will they grow some if they don't?

And thanks for the plant I.D., I have been looking into a good low-tech carpeting plant. I think I remember in your intro post that you don't run anything really high-tech, right? No CO2 or anything? And do you have to trim that, or does it just grow that small on its own?

 

[Anonymous]

Hmm, interesting, I haven't seen mine splitting yet, but they are pretty new to the tank (tank is pretty new lol) so maybe now that they are fully adjusted, I will try splitting the big one again. I think 1 of the pieces I cut too small, and its growth seems to have stalled, even though it has roots- what's the smallest piece of rhizome you have had success growing? Do the pieces of rhizome have to have their own roots, or will they grow some if they don't?

And thanks for the plant I.D., I have been looking into a good low-tech carpeting plant. I think I remember in your intro post that you don't run anything really high-tech, right? No CO2 or anything? And do you have to trim that, or does it just grow that small on its own?

With the rhizome, I make sure it has at lest3 leaves, and yes at that point there are some roots. I currently have 2 new plants attached to woods. It does seem like it takes forever for the new plant to take off. I mean its been months now & seems only 1-2 new leaves have grown. But on the flip side there is roots up to 5" long from the new start.
I recently cut the "head" off my mother plant (about 2 months ago), this piece was much larger at about 5-6 inches long. It's growing like it was never separated. I could never find anyone who wanted it so I stuck it into substrate.

The Eleocheris Belem I haven't had for very long. I started with a BIG chunk, no I have not cut or trimmed it as of yet. From what I read it stays that short but just keeps spreading. I expect it will eventually choke itself out in its confined space.
The plant is planted in a "dirted" tank. All natural potting soil mixed with Flourite sand packed in as tight as I could get it. I did put a bit of of the sand to cap. That's all that's in there. No ferts, no CO2 except what's made naturally by the fish, snails, and decaying organic matter.

 

[LuminousAphid]

Ah I see, that's a cool bowl. Did you let the soil sit and "mineralize" or whatnot, or just start planting?

The more I see people's dirted tanks, the more I want to do one...

 

[Anonymous]

Ah I see, that's a cool bowl. Did you let the soil sit and "mineralize" or whatnot, or just start planting?

The more I see people's dirted tanks, the more I want to do one...

I did let it soak. Not to mineralize the soil but to water log it, & scoop out the 10% that would not sink. It was a fun project but my friend and I  get the same growth out of specialized gravels as well. There are pro's and cons to dirted tanks. The only real pro I find is that its cheaper to "dirt" a tank than buy specialized gravel. The down side to a dirted tank "for me" is your stuck. So once you dirt your tank there is no elaborate rearrangement of decor, or the possible wanting to shift substrate around. With a dirted tank it's set it in and leave it. Which is cool if you have a tank you know your not going to do anything else with. For me thats not practical unless its a bowl Also, with my bowl the goal wasn't to dirt & plant. The goal was to create a self maintaining ecosystem. For the most part that goal is accomplished .

 

[LuminousAphid]

That's pretty awesome, if my small 4 gallon tank doesn't really work out for shrimp, I might start over with dirt and just plants at first. I'm finding that it's hard to make myself stop messing with things, and if it was dirted and well-planted, I might have no choice

But then again, I hope the 4 gallon works out, I might just start soaking some dirt today in a bowl I got from my aunt.

New journal time? I guess I should do it before I get another job and have no time/don't want to

 

[Anonymous]

That's pretty awesome, if my small 4 gallon tank doesn't really work out for shrimp, I might start over with dirt and just plants at first. I'm finding that it's hard to make myself stop messing with things, and if it was dirted and well-planted, I might have no choice

But then again, I hope the 4 gallon works out, I might just start soaking some dirt today in a bowl I got from my aunt.

New journal time? I guess I should do it before I get another job and have no time/don't want to

AluminousAphid,
I can totally relate. I have changed decor, themes, fish, ECT... Many many times. I am avid in DYI setups when it comes to plumbing tanks, CO2 set ups, customizing lights, tops, anything & everything when it comes to aquatics! It fun I have a tendency to over do it a bit. My current project is DYI CO2 reactors, trying to figure out a way to pulverize CO2 particals into the water in the most efficient way possible...