Goldfish problem... swim bladder? egg bound? ideas?

[DMD123]

So one of my goldies is acting very strange, kind of curling its body toward one side and swimming this way in a downward position. This fish is a Ranchu and they are kind of known to have swim bladder issues and most of that is usually because of food. I have picked very specifc foods to avoid this issue, being sinking pellets and a mixed in pellet that is known to help with the issues the food can cause. Plus everything Ive read seems like the issues with swim bladder usually show as the fish having issues keeping upright.

My other thought is egg bound. Even then she isnt showing an overly bloated look about her that would even suggest that.

Ive tried a Epsom salt bath and she of course didnt like it but later in the evening seemed to be swimming a bit better. I also did a light massage to her belly pushing lightly towards the anus and no eggs but a little bit of waste came out.

She also now seems off her feed. noticing she is not as actively going at foods as the others. She is pretty much sitting by herself in corners or far away from the other fish which is very odd since they are usually quite social and swim around together in groups.

Just looking for any ideas from the group...

This is a BEFORE pic when she was doing okay

 

[DMD123]

Of all things found an article from Chewy

Swim Bladder Disease in Fish: What It Is and How To Treat It

Have you noticed bloating and buoyancy issues in your fish? It could be swim bladder disease. Find out what it is and how to treat it.

be.chewy.com

So I am great at water changes and I think the food is not in question. Maybe the fish eats too much however...
But it mentioned the following items that did fit: (quoted from article)

• Sinking to the bottom: Your fish spends most of their time lying on the bottom of the tank and struggles to swim to the surface, if they can do so at all.
• Listing, leaning or swimming on one side: Your fish cannot stay upright, and they always seem to be tipping to one side, making it difficult or impossible to swim normally.
• Head tilted up or down: Your fish’s head is either tilted upwards or downwards, and they cannot seem to right themselves even with great effort.

I might just try this: (again quoted from article)

Try an Antibiotic​

Since secondary bacterial infections are one of the most common causes of swim bladder disorders, pharmaceutical intervention may be needed to help your fish. If you take the actions mentioned above and your fish’s condition does not improve, it may be wise to try a broad-spectrum antibiotic, such as Maracyn from Fritz.

 

[DMD123]

The fish has taken to floating at the surface as of last night. At least upright floating, not leaning toward any side. Did gravel vac and water change and treated with API product that I had on hand that has Doxy in in it. This morning seen a little bit of improvement in that the curl to the body is gone but fish still floating at surface. Second dose tonight.

 

[DMD123]

Did a second dose and notice the fish has a bit of a white film look on its eyes and not very responsive. Im thinking it is a goner… I will reevaluate in the morning and if it is still unresponsive I will move the fish out of the main tank and possibly do a small tote as a hospital tank. The medicine seems to be upsetting the healthy fish so I want to water change and get the meds out of the tank. If this was an infection related to swim bladder, it hit pretty quickly and I didn’t have that long to work with the fish before it went downhill so quickly.

 

[sir_keith]

These swim bladder issues are really hard to cure, and by the time they present, it is often too late.

 

[DMD123]

These swim bladder issues are really hard to cure, and by the time they present, it is often too late.

Yeah, thats the fear that its too late. I moved the sick fish out into a separate container to treat so I could just have clean water with the healthy fish which were acting strangely due to meds. As I moved the sick fish it still seemed to have a lot of energy but looked really bad. I think it may need to be euthanized…

 

[DMD123]

This morning I think I made a decision to stop the antibiotic treatments and euthanize it when I get home from work this afternoon. It has a very lifeless look in its eyes. At this point it has not eaten in five days and there is no mouth motions like it was even registering what food is. It is just floating at this point with a couple tail flicks and fin movements keeping it upright. Even the energy level it had from a day ago just seems gone.

 

[sir_keith]

This morning I think I made a decision to stop the antibiotic treatments and euthanize it when I get home from work this afternoon. It has a very lifeless look in its eyes. At this point it has not eaten in five days and there is no mouth motions like it was even registering what food is. It is just floating at this point with a couple tail flicks and fin movements keeping it upright. Even the energy level it had from a day ago just seems gone.

It's always difficult, but sometimes the only humane option is to end the suffering.

 

[DMD123]

It's always difficult, but sometimes the only humane option is to end the suffering.

That is what I ended up doing. There was no significant improvement to merit prolonging the suffering.

 

[DMD123]

Now I wonder exactly what this was… days later my panda oranda was acting “off” but still eating and swimming around normally and then it died. Now my pom pom oranda is acting strangely. Basically not very active, sitting on the bottom and eating less than normal. I wonder if this was something contagious? Ugh

 

[sir_keith]

Ascitic infections (formerly called 'dropsy' by aquarists) present in a variety of ways, have multiple etiologies, and are highly contagious. I'd start with that as one likely possibility.

 

[DMD123]

I decided to do Epsom salts baths and treat with Kanaplex before it gets worse and see if I caught this one early enough.

 

[John58Ford]

UV sterilizer? I know you have a monster on the big tank, they help a bit when you really don't know what else to do.

 

[DMD123]

UV sterilizer? I know you have a monster on the big tank, they help a bit when you really don't know what else to do.

I wish I could find a nice one that I liked to be able to plumb onto the tank externally. I seem to have less issues on tanks that have had UV on it. I wish the AC110 filter had an easy to do UV attachment.

 

[DMD123]

The fish was still eating as of this morning. Plan is to continue to do 1/2 hr Epsom salt bath once a day and the treatment of the tank with Kanaplex for a full course. Not seeing any visible issues like water retention, or raised scales, just some behavioral things. Part of what Im seeing as "off" behavior may also be due to the fact its just the two fish in the tank. The normal social behavior with multiple fish is gone at the moment. I do have some more fish on order but I will wait to introduce them into this tank until I feel this fish is not an issue and the new fish go through a quarantine process first.

 

[sir_keith]

UV sterilizer? I know you have a monster on the big tank, they help a bit when you really don't know what else to do.

I wish I could find a nice one that I liked to be able to plumb onto the tank externally. I seem to have less issues on tanks that have had UV on it. I wish the AC110 filter had an easy to do UV attachment.

I'm highly skeptical that UV would be an effective counter to the high pathogen load of a productive infection; that said, there are lots of in-line units that can be installed on canister filters, which can be moved from tank to tank, as needed.

 

[DMD123]

Im thinking its already too late for the pom pom yuan bao. Fed this morning and it didn’t actively come towards food. Did Epsom salt bath and it was floating in it instead of swimming around like it had done previously. Did a second dose of Kanaplex and am watching the fish close and it just doesn’t seem like its moving forward towards health but in the other direction. Ugh, I am going to wait a while longer before having to make the decision to euthanize but if it comes to that, I am taking the tank down and doing a full disinfection of it.

 

[DMD123]

Well that was quick, a little over two hours and I found the fish stuck on the filter intake tube. One ranchu left in tank that seems healthy but it was doing a weird swim thing when I got home. I don’t know if I should consider it a ‘carrier’ and put it down or keep treating it with kanaplex… I guess we will see if it eats in the morning. This will tell me how far it has progressed. So far seems as soon as they go off feed they are done in a day or so.

 

[sir_keith]

Have you been able to identify the fish that brought in the infection? I would think the vendor should know about this.

 

[DMD123]

Have you been able to identify the fish that brought in the infection? I would think the vendor should know about this.

Likely it was the Gold Coin Sakura Ranchu, this was the fish that first showed symptoms and the first to pass. But because I added a fish about a week later that also passed, its hard to say. But that fish I would trust a lot more since Ive ordered two other times from the vendor and still have two other very healthy fish.